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blackphoenix
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| Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | Q. Will Hero's Journey use multiple servers?
A. Yes. Some may be themed or have original rule sets such as PvP servers or Roleplaying servers. |
This is interesting, but I would like to know if they are going to be completely separate or if you will be able to PvP with your RP character once in a while. Peronally I don't care to PvP with a character that I haven't used and gotten used to the controls, and RP is where I tend to do that, get used to the controls, I mean.
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| 04/19/06 12:49 |
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Aidan_Adelbern
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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it will probably be like the world of warcraft servers where you get rp and pvp seperatly.
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| 04/19/06 12:52 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | Q. Will Hero's Journey use multiple servers?
A. Yes. Some may be themed or have original rule sets such as PvP servers or Roleplaying servers. |
This is interesting, but I would like to know if they are going to be completely separate or if you will be able to PvP with your RP character once in a while. Peronally I don't care to PvP with a character that I haven't used and gotten used to the controls, and RP is where I tend to do that, get used to the controls, I mean. |
From everything I read (they didn't have a lot), I think it is going to be like WoW. RP servers don't have PvP, but I'm not 100% they have even said yet.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/19/06 15:49 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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I don't care either way, but I would not like it if people can move from one kind of server to the other. That will only result in KS and carebear chaos. And scenario's where people raise their characters on a non-pvp server, and then play uber after switching. In general, I don't like switching. It usually result in players somehow abusing the system.
And on another note. What a PVP server is is obvious, but I am not sure how you can make a RP server. Is that a server where you have to say "thou" or get banned? RP-ing is fun, but there is nothing I think you can as developer to enforce it one way or the other.
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| 04/24/06 07:06 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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Splitting servers completely between RP and PvP is not a good idea.
Most RP'ers do enjoy using PvP as a means of furthering RP stories. I just don't think it should be an "open" PvP server.
In Star Wars Galaxies there is notice whenever someone extends a duel which must be accepted before PvP can begin. Something like this would be ideal I think.
Another good way to allow PvP on RP servers would be a status flag. If you're a member of a guild or faction at war with another guild then PvP should be open.
After all what fun is RP if there is no conflict?
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| 04/24/06 10:12 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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I love you idea to have war between two guilds or factions. Preferable guilds. Everybody belongs to one faction or the other. Which means you can't avoid pvp. But it would be great if you can declare a feud against another guild, or maybe even a coalition of guilds.
I don't like the pvp-flag or duel-request. That will usually result in only uber players, or those that found a cheat and that will make everybody suffer by a dev nerve.
But a guild vs guild (or maybe town vs town) pvp would be great.
How about that if the town/guild refuses to accept the feud, they will have to pay a "protection fee". Until they can make a coalition with a bigger town and get revenge?
Oh, the possibilities. I need to get on that council.
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| 04/25/06 05:45 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | I love you idea to have war between two guilds or factions. Preferable guilds. Everybody belongs to one faction or the other. Which means you can't avoid pvp. But it would be great if you can declare a feud against another guild, or maybe even a coalition of guilds.
I don't like the pvp-flag or duel-request. That will usually result in only uber players, or those that found a cheat and that will make everybody suffer by a dev nerve.
But a guild vs guild (or maybe town vs town) pvp would be great.
How about that if the town/guild refuses to accept the feud, they will have to pay a "protection fee". Until they can make a coalition with a bigger town and get revenge?
Oh, the possibilities. I need to get on that council. |
As long as they have some means of PvP on RP servers I'm fine. I just hate having a script to follow on oh you have to lose this fight. And then Emoting it all out.
I don't mind losing don't get me wrong, but I don't like it either. If someone wants my character to lose for a storyline I want them to darn well be able to beat my character. If I invest as much time and effort in my character as I have in the past it's just hard to turn him into a footmat. I like storylines to be free flowing, and the actual outcome of each seperate instance determines the end of the story.
Now I don't mind some scripting, but I do like having at least some control or impact on what is going to happen.
Again with my time in SWG, several of the major RP guilds all agreed to declare war on each other. So my guild -ONE- was at war with maybe four other guilds. That meant that PvP was open to kill on sight. So that if I saw the member of another guild I could immediately attack them.
Now we set some basic "rules" in that our character had to have some form of RP motivation to begin combat depending on that character. Being a Jedi, I rarely inniated combat, because it wasn't in my character's personality. However if someone else was a Bounty Hunter, and they knew my character was a Jedi and wanted by the Empire they could open fire on sight.
This added a more indepth feel to the game. If I ticked someone off by running my mouth there could be consequences because the person could haul off and blast me. It just added a new dimension of realisim and I loved it.
I do hope we can get something like that in here. If we're all promoting the same faction, but also promoting our "guild" within that faction then there should be power struggles and some conflict. After all the FAQ or some of the Q&A's have said that not everyone is buying into the plan completely. What better way to demonstrate that then through some guild wars.
It sort of reminds me now of the series by R.A. Salvatore on Drizzt Do'Urdon (SP? it's been awhile). In his underworld home, houses often were at war to gain the favor of the Spider Queen God they worshiped. But they couldn't be caught, it sort of had to be a secret war.
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| 04/25/06 07:25 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | It sort of reminds me now of the series by R.A. Salvatore on Drizzt Do'Urdon (SP? it's been awhile). In his underworld home, houses often were at war to gain the favor of the Spider Queen God they worshiped. But they couldn't be caught, it sort of had to be a secret war. |
Now this would be a fun idea! Secret wars against eachother. That would make for some really fun guild role playing.
But I have to say, I would prefer playing on a server that unless I wanted to, I don't have to worry about PvP. I've never enjoyed PvP in MMOs. I would rather team with the real people than fight them. Of course that is just me, and I have learned how to work around not engaging into PvP (yes I can run fast!).
A flag system would be fine with me though. That way I can just let everyone know I'm not going to fight them *grin*
**edit
Doh, I forgot to put in:
Welcome to the site, Hashum!
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/25/06 12:06 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | Now we set some basic "rules" in that our character had to have some form of RP motivation to begin combat depending on that character. Being a Jedi, I rarely inniated combat, because it wasn't in my character's personality. However if someone else was a Bounty Hunter, and they knew my character was a Jedi and wanted by the Empire they could open fire on sight. |
That is great! I have never been in such an involved world. How did they do that? How did they deal with players that did not follow such RP rules. My experience is that too many players refuse to stick to such rules, and this making the whole pvp experience a dull survival of the uber-est. Which usually means I am out reasonably quick, since I don't care to have the ultimate armor/powerset.
| QUOTE | | I do hope we can get something like that in here. If we're all promoting the same faction, but also promoting our "guild" within that faction then there should be power struggles and some conflict. After all the FAQ or some of the Q&A's have said that not everyone is buying into the plan completely. What better way to demonstrate that then through some guild wars. |
Sounds great! But I am still wary that not everybody cares to see it your way. Most people just want to become the top dog asap, and then complain about lack of content.
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| 04/26/06 08:00 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE |
That is great! I have never been in such an involved world. How did they do that? How did they deal with players that did not follow such RP rules. My experience is that too many players refuse to stick to such rules, and this making the whole pvp experience a dull survival of the uber-est. Which usually means I am out reasonably quick, since I don't care to have the ultimate armor/powerset. |
Well of course no world is perfect and mine was no different. There are several small issues that do tend to come up. These are resolved in several ways. If the issue seems related to only one person it’s brought up to the guild leader, the guild leader can remove the person from the guild, or possibly just clarify with the person the issues. Now we all used the same website forums online so communication between all parties was pretty good. And typically a little discussion is all it took to correct the problem.
If however the persisted we just removed that guild from the War. The key is that everyone that participated in this was on the same website for communication purposes, and their main goal was really RP. We wanted to feel immersed in Star Wars. And seeing red con’s all over our radar gave our actions a more “real” feel, so most people were more interested in being able to have that then manipulating the system to pwn face.
In the end it all comes down to communication, and everyone agreeing what it is they want from the system. But no system is perfect so everyone does need to understand there will be some issues that need to be addressed, and that it is just a game so try to keep calm about them.
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Sounds great! But I am still wary that not everybody cares to see it your way. Most people just want to become the top dog asap, and then complain about lack of content. |
That’s true, there’s not avoiding that issue. Heck I want to be the top dog I can’t deny that. I like having the l33t armor or weapons etc. but that is secondary typically to RP, and it’s just important that the people you play with feel the same way. Which goes back to my point about player cities and housing making it easier for you to find people with the same goals or wanting the same game experience and having them all in the same area.
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| 04/26/06 08:43 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | But I am still wary that not everybody cares to see it your way. Most people just want to become the top dog asap, and then complain about lack of content. |
I don't think I would say most people want to become the top dog. It just seems those are the most vocal people. I actually don't care about level or being the first to do anything. I like to enjoy my game, take in the sights, and experience the world the dev's created for us. And I've found a lot of people like that. You just have to get past the power gamers.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/26/06 09:45 |
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HJ-Illuminatis
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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PVP is probably the toughest subject matter to delve into with any game designed. There are too many factors involved to just come up with an idea and then stick with it. You probably won't hear much on it until around the time we start up beta, and even then only the testers will probably know much because things will get changed and tweaked quite a bit.
As to what designates a server as an RP server. Typically in the past game companies would designate a server as an RP server so that RP minded people could gather there. Any and all RP was policed solely by the players and not the staff. Which pretty much meant they weren't really RP servers.
What you will probably find with us though is that we'll be far more likely to do spontaneous RP like events on an RP server. Those players in the mentor society (I'm pretty sure we're doing this for HJ too, but don't quote me on it) will have a more RP focused mindset for helping new players out. We'll possibly have a tighter naming policy as well. While I doubt we'll have the manpower to police every single player to make sure they stick to any rules in place to avoid OOCism. I'm sure we'll be able to handle blatant and habitual rule breakers. RP is pretty heavily enforced in Simu's other games, and we definately take it seriously.
GM Illuminatis
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Hero's Journey
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| 04/27/06 15:53 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE |
What you will probably find with us though is that we'll be far more likely to do spontaneous RP like events on an RP server. Those players in the mentor society (I'm pretty sure we're doing this for HJ too, but don't quote me on it) will have a more RP focused mindset for helping new players out. We'll possibly have a tighter naming policy as well. While I doubt we'll have the manpower to police every single player to make sure they stick to any rules in place to avoid OOCism. I'm sure we'll be able to handle blatant and habitual rule breakers. RP is pretty heavily enforced in Simu's other games, and we definately take it seriously. |
I'm very glad to hear this! Nothing aids or promotes RP more then GM's or Dev's getting involved and helping it along with small little events.
Simu has an excellent reputation in my mind for that, and it's one of the reasons I'm so looking forward to this game.
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| 04/27/06 16:03 |
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thejeni
Posts: 142
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | While I doubt we'll have the manpower to police every single player to make sure they stick to any rules in place to avoid OOCism. I'm sure we'll be able to handle blatant and habitual rule breakers. RP is pretty heavily enforced in Simu's other games, and we definately take it seriously. |
This makes me happy to hear. I've never played a MMO that actually enforced RP on certain servers. It sounds great though.
But the one remaining question is whether PvP will be anywhere on the RP servers.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/27/06 16:09 |
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HJ-Illuminatis
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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This makes me happy to hear. I've never played a MMO that actually enforced RP on certain servers. It sounds great though.
But the one remaining question is whether PvP will be anywhere on the RP servers. |
This might take a moment or two to grasp, but then it will claw at your brain rapidly. No PVP on an RP server ever.
Simu doesn't believe PVP (Player verse player) is an aspect of proper RP. What they did however is clasify what's called CvC. That is character verse character. Essentially they are the same except for a few things. The main one being that RP has to be involved in some way shape or form. If there's no RP then it's not your character getting involved in a conflict with another player. Another is that GMs will never intervene in CvC whereas they will most likely do so with a PvP griefer. How we're going to enforce any of this for HJ I'm not exactly sure. I know in their other games any on duty GM gets a little screamer if a player kills another player. (Which wouldn't be hard to do in HJ as well, but might get annoying for us during some little war.)
As to if we'll ever have this on any RP servers. If the players want it. Then we'll most likely grant it on some servers.
GM Illuminatis
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| 04/27/06 16:49 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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CvC! That is brilliant! Oh, I so hope that could work out. I am going to talk my way out of every conflict :)
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| 04/27/06 16:55 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | This might take a moment or two to grasp, but then it will claw at your brain rapidly. No PVP on an RP server ever.
Simu doesn't believe PVP (Player verse player) is an aspect of proper RP. What they did however is clasify what's called CvC. That is character verse character. Essentially they are the same except for a few things. The main one being that RP has to be involved in some way shape or form. If there's no RP then it's not your character getting involved in a conflict with another player. Another is that GMs will never intervene in CvC whereas they will most likely do so with a PvP griefer. How we're going to enforce any of this for HJ I'm not exactly sure. I know in their other games any on duty GM gets a little screamer if a player kills another player. (Which wouldn't be hard to do in HJ as well, but might get annoying for us during some little war.)
As to if we'll ever have this on any RP servers. If the players want it. Then we'll most likely grant it on some servers. |
Well I'm sold. RP server for me all the way! The CvC sound like a very nice way to handle it on the RP servers.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/27/06 17:19 |
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unkleanone
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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On RP servers I enjoy haveing some pvp content available like CVC but will that be available only on a 1v1 level or will it be available as a mass chaos sort of thing say a small war between two or more groups of players?
Artistic Expressions, My new shop, purchase various items featuring original work and ideas from your's truly! Hell...It's about time.
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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| 04/28/06 01:20 |
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HJ-Illuminatis
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | On RP servers I enjoy haveing some pvp content available like CVC but will that be available only on a 1v1 level or will it be available as a mass chaos sort of thing say a small war between two or more groups of players? |
The powers that be (Read Management) haven't really released much info on this yet. I'm fairly certain dueling will be available on all servers as it's become pretty much a stock aspect to MMO's, and it's been stated the Faction will play a large role in in the PvP/CvC side of those. So I'm sure small or large scale wars will be possible. During Beta we'll probably get a much better feel for what players will want as far as server themes and rulesets go after they get to test out our system.
GM Illuminatis
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| 04/28/06 06:54 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | On RP servers I enjoy haveing some pvp content available like CVC but will that be available only on a 1v1 level or will it be available as a mass chaos sort of thing say a small war between two or more groups of players? |
The powers that be (Read Management) haven't really released much info on this yet. I'm fairly certain dueling will be available on all servers as it's become pretty much a stock aspect to MMO's, and it's been stated the Faction will play a large role in in the PvP/CvC side of those. So I'm sure small or large scale wars will be possible. During Beta we'll probably get a much better feel for what players will want as far as server themes and rulesets go after they get to test out our system. |
Excellent, that's really what I was looking for, faction vs faction type CvC. That's an excellent solution, it offers all the combat flexibility that you need for RP without having to worry about as much greifing if the Dev's or GM's can get involved in those cases.
I'm definately sold on the idea already. The Duel option is also great for RP "Training". We often time uses the Duel option as a means of teaching combat techniques to "students". It's great fun!
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| 04/28/06 07:26 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | We often time uses the Duel option as a means of teaching combat techniques to "students" |
You ever take the "students" in there as a punishement? You know give them a major beat down so they don't act up any more?
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/28/06 09:16 |
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Hashum
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | We often time uses the Duel option as a means of teaching combat techniques to "students" |
You ever take the "students" in there as a punishement? You know give them a major beat down so they don't act up any more? |
We thought about it but decided some of them may enjoy it, thus defeating the purpose of it being "punishment" so we're looking into other methods at this time.
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| 04/28/06 11:25 |
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HJ-Cirakin
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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This is the main problem I have with the term PvP and the way it is regarded in the mass MMO market. There is no interaction between the players prior to the fight. It is not about my character against your characters. It becomes me against you. When my pixels beat your pixels, I feel better about myself. I see it as a pissing contest, into the wind.
When roleplaying is involved, the outcome can actually be used to affect your character. It allows a sort of seperation that people tend to blur when playing these games. There were several characters in Gemstone that my character could not stand. They did not get along. But I was able to talk to, and actually be friends with the players. I didn't hate them. My character hated their character.
I don't think it is possible to have a really great RP server without CvC.
I don't think it is possible to have a really great RP server with PvP.
Just my thoughts and opinions.
Cirakin
HJ-Cirakin
Hero's Journey Developer
http://www.play.net/hj
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| 04/28/06 15:45 |
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HJ-Illuminatis
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | This is the main problem I have with the term PvP and the way it is regarded in the mass MMO market. There is no interaction between the players prior to the fight. It is not about my character against your characters. It becomes me against you. When my pixels beat your pixels, I feel better about myself. I see it as a pissing contest, into the wind.
When roleplaying is involved, the outcome can actually be used to affect your character. It allows a sort of seperation that people tend to blur when playing these games. There were several characters in Gemstone that my character could not stand. They did not get along. But I was able to talk to, and actually be friends with the players. I didn't hate them. My character hated their character.
I don't think it is possible to have a really great RP server without CvC.
I don't think it is possible to have a really great RP server with PvP.
Just my thoughts and opinions.
Cirakin |
Cirakin sums up the Simu view on this really well. You'd never ever have this kind of interaction in WoW because it's not possible to talk to the other factions without being banned for hacking. Same thing occurred in EQ1 on the Good vs Evil servers. None of the good races good speak to the evil ones. A lot of games seperate the factions in this manner, and usually it's to prevent spies and other such nonesense. Which is a pretty stupid thing to try and take out of an RP game. Spies should be a part of everyday life when you have a war going on.
GM Illuminatis
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| 04/28/06 17:23 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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I like your out take on the PvP. I've never understood why people enjoy running up and killing random strangers. And even with a few people doing it, it was enough to ruin the role play part of the game.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 04/28/06 20:25 |
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Phedre_D
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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On the other hand. If you watch enough movies about contract killers, rule number one is to not know your victim. As soon as you see your victim as a person it starts effecting you personally. Of course we are not killing anybody. Only pixels. But for a part it is the same. An RP character is still your personality for a part. And you did make your personality "kill" somebody. I have no issue killing ocres for xp. Or the mountain bowmen. But killing the pixels of somebody I really know gets closer. Maybe it is just me.
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| 05/01/06 05:28 |
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thejeni
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| RE: Separate PvP and RP servers |
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| QUOTE | | On the other hand. If you watch enough movies about contract killers, rule number one is to not know your victim. As soon as you see your victim as a person it starts effecting you personally. Of course we are not killing anybody. Only pixels. But for a part it is the same. An RP character is still your personality for a part. And you did make your personality "kill" somebody. I have no issue killing ocres for xp. Or the mountain bowmen. But killing the pixels of somebody I really know gets closer. Maybe it is just me. |
Or maybe some people don't have the problems w/ killing. I really don't like the feeling I get when I battle a player character. But by the sounds of it, unless I want to, I won't have to worry about that.
Siggy created by DeathFetish.
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| 05/01/06 09:03 |
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El Grippo
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All I know is, for a short time, I was a member of a group called the AHA(Alliance of Hired Assassins) in Gemstone(another MMO put out by Simu), and it was the most fun PvP experience of my life. We would hold clandestine meetings with prospective clients, and totally RP out hits. SUPER fun, and it kinda makes me sad if there isnt PvP on the RP servers. But then again, Gemstone was a much different kind of game and Gemstone players are a different breed than your average MMOer(not that thats a bad thing).
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| 09/16/06 19:04 |
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